User talk:Carcharoth

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This is a Wikipedia user talk page. For the fictional wolf of the same name, see Carcharoth.
This is a Wikipedia user talk page.

This is not an encyclopedia article or the talk page for an encyclopedia article. If you find this page on any site other than Wikipedia, you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated and that the user to whom this talk page belongs to may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Wikipedia itself. The original talk page is located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Carcharoth.
If you're here to respond to a comment I posted on your talk page, feel free to reply on your talk page so the question and answer are together. I tend to watch talk pages I've posted comments to for a few weeks after my initial post, but I don't keep my watchlist open all the time. If you want to get my attention sooner, feel free to leave the reply here instead. If you leave me a message, I'll respond here unless you ask me to reply somewhere else. I may also reply at your talk page if that is the trend in the conversation. Discussions that took place prior to 21 October 2006 are mostly split between talk pages.

Contents

Remembrance Day - 11 November 2008

Ode of Remembrance - Shrine of Remembrance - Remembrance Day

Remembrance Day


Recorded debates and discussions

Candidates and the community,

Wikivoices (formally NotTheWikipediaWeekly) would be interested in making several podcasts with candidates running in the 2008 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee election. Given the high number of candidates likely to be signing up during the nomination stage (likely to be around 45) it will be a very busy 2 weeks. These shows typically last about one and a half hours to record, taking into account setup time, and are recorded using the free, downloadable programme, Skype. The programme can be used on Windows, Mac OS and Linux operating systems and is also available on some mobile platforms. If any candidates have problems with installing or running the program please contact either myself at my talk page or by email

There will be 2 formats being run over the next 2 weeks. The first will be general discussion with a small number candidates at a time with several experienced hosts from Wikivoices. Each candidate will be given 2-3 minutes to introduce themselves then the main body of the cast will begin. The topics discussed will vary in each recording to ensure fairness however the atmosphere will be generally free flowing. These will be running throughout the two weeks starting tomorrow. Specific signup times can be found here at our meta page.

The second format will be based on a similar style to election debates. Questions will be suggested here by the community. A selection of these will then be put to a panel of larger panel candidates with short and concise 1-2 minute responses. Other than an introduction and hello from each candidate, there will be no opportunity for a lengthier introductions. Specific signup times can be found here at our meta page.

It is recommended that candidates attend both formats of casts and we will try to be as flexible as possible. We are looking for the greatest participation but also for shows with enough members to keep it interesting but not too many that it causes bandwidth and general running issues. I look forward to working with all candidates in the coming weeks.

01:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

WikiVoices

Seddσn talk Editor Review

Replied on Seddon's talk page here, thanking him for the offer, but declining the invitation. Carcharoth (talk) 00:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser

Yes, I limited myself to the facts, and although I alluded to my suspicions, I felt that they were too thinly-supported to be put on record. Tim Vickers (talk) 04:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I still think it would have made more sense for you to be more open about what your suspicions were. Asking for a checkuser between a suspect account and a banned account shouldn't be that controversial. Carcharoth (talk)

Grburster

  1. Okay, I think we should discuss this fully. I have to admit that I've noticed you take what appears to be a more and more dim view of me and my contributions/activities/techniques over the last few months especially. Am I imagining this, or is this really the case?
  2. Did I think that GRBurster was Iantresman? The real issue, as I see it, was that you were willing to step up for this user even with a contribution history that showed mostly disruption vis-a-vis my account. When this is your ninth edit, I think that something smells fishy. And yet, you seem to have been unphased by this... as if someone cobbling together references from fairly-well buried arbitration cases, a peculiar obsession with my edit history (which, in case you haven't noticed, is very difficult to follow), and a knack for knowing just precisely how to phrase a complaint to get maximum attention was somehow not suspicious. You say you were distracted by Tim Vicker's red herring. Okay, I can see that. But even so, couldn't you come up with a justification on your own? You said yourself you looked at the contribution history, but apparently, you didn't see anything untoward. Why the tolerance for an account that immediately starts going after me with a level of sophistication that screams sockpuppet?
  3. I like your idea of performing rolling checkusers on all indef-blocked/banned users, but I believe that this might not be practical. How many blocked/banned users are there? How many hours in a week? What would be a good schedule on which to do this?

ScienceApologist (talk) 08:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

  1. The most recent direct comment that I recall making on your editing (or rather on your edit summaries) was at the ANI thread archived here. If I have the time, I will try and locate the other times in the last few months where I have commented in threads or discussions involving or concerning you. That could take some time though, so if you have examples, that would help. From memory, I do recall mentally agreeing with some of your actions and comments, and mentally disagreeing with others (as I do with most people). Only when I strongly disagree, or am already involved in a discussion, would I have tended to comment in writing. As an example, I noticed the slew of AfDs that you started recently when you came across someone's list (in their userspace) of articles they had started, but I didn't comment on that (before now), though I do have opinions in general on high rates of nominations for AfD (I think the rate of nomination should be tied in someway to the rates of article creation and article clean-up - thus keeping a balance in the system).
  2. I was indeed distracted by Tim's red herring, and that accounts for a large part of what I said at the actual checkuser request. Once it was revealed by Thatcher that this was a sockpuppet account, obviously I took another look, and that's what led to what I said in point 5 at the ANI thread: "was it because he (Thatcher) saw a new account (self-admitted as an experienced editor), editing physics articles, who had made an ANI post criticising User:ScienceApologist, and alarm bells began to ring?" I think part of the reason I'm slower than others to see this sort of thing is that I have a strong instinct to presume innocence, and I also have a strong instinct to look at the contributions, not the contributor. I do feel very strongly that bad arguments and poor criticisms can be refuted regardless of who says them, so I usually take a pragmatic approach of responding to a post rather than looking first to see how old an account is, or what the history of the account is. Quite frankly, if I assumed all new accounts were sockpuppets, I'd go crazy. You are quite right, though, that I should have been more alert to this with Grburster, and for that I apologise.
  3. I was under the impression that the checkusers already did do routine checks on banned accounts. If they don't, or only do so sporadically, there might be an argument for doing so in some automated fashion. I suggest you take up the idea at Wikipedia talk:Checkuser.
I hope discussing things further has helped. I do have other questions to answer and other things to do, so I hope you'll understand that I can't spend too much more time on this. If you have time, though, I'd like to ask you a few questions. I did notice that you have asked another candidate whether they would recuse in cases involving you, and I have noticed in some ANI threads that you claim that some administrators are too 'involved' to take action. Could I ask whether you have a clear definition of what you consider 'involved' with regards to you and your editing? Carcharoth (talk) 08:21, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Involved usually means that the administrator has taken a position vis-a-vis the general situation in which I am constantly involved. The user to which you are referring has stated on more than one occasion that he thinks that civility trumps content contributions, and, as such, has asked for harsh judgments be made in a particular direction in such cases. I am all for people taking sides, but I think once administrators do that they must necessarily get their actions reviewed by other administrators. In that particular case, the user also left Wikipedia for a time in part because of interactions with me. I find it hard to believe that this makes this administrator impartial. There are roughly six administrators whom I feel are too compromised to use their administrator tools responsibly when I'm involved. I can list them for you privately. You are not one of them. ScienceApologist (talk) 06:52, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up. I agree that in some situations, administrators getting their actions reviewed by other administrators is absolutely needed. I would hope that if I was ever in such a situation that I would recognise it, or at least listen to people telling me that I was involved. Carcharoth (talk) 13:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom Candidate Template

Hello, fellow candidate! Just so you know, in an effort to announce our candidacies and raise further awareness of the election, I have created the template {{ACE2008Candidate}}, which I would invite you to place on your user and user talk pages. The template is designed to direct users to your Questions and Discussion pages, as well as to further information about the election. Best of luck in the election! Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I'm probably not going to use the template, though, as I don't want those pass by my talk page and who are not interested in the election (and who are busy writing the encyclopedia) to be distracted. Anyone who is interested in the election should be aware by now of who is running (WP:ACE2008 and the sitenotice). Though having said that, as I'm letting jc37 to do a 'campaign' template, that might sound a bit strange. Really, the issue is that I don't want templates advertising the election on my user pages. On other people's pages is fine, but I'd prefer to keep this little corner sane for the next month! :-) Carcharoth (talk) 00:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Arbcom election

Per the above three (which were created through discussion with those under discussion), I'd like to select three candidates to do the same with this year, and you're one of the three. (Though I may decide to pick 4 or 5 this year, it's quite a selection.)

So if you don't strongly oppose the idea, would you help by suggesting/selecting a few appropriate images? - jc37 11:15, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer. I don't object, but I'd want to choose the image. I was thinking something suitably lupine or canine. A few ideas I've found so far:
If you (or anyone reading this) can find any similar or better or different pictures, please suggest them. I don't want to spend too long on this, though, as there are 101 other things to do during these elections. Absolute madness and mayhem! :-) Carcharoth (talk) 00:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Among quite a few other ones for dogs and wolves : ) - jc37 03:50, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Or this or this one, properly cropped. This one looks mean, while this one is more pensive. Risker (talk) 04:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
While it may be "more" than you may want, I have to agree that Image:Canis lupus portrait.jpg would seem to have the closest "look" so far of the M-E creature, at least : ) - jc37 04:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
OK, I've been considering the above, and what I've decided is to go with Image:Tibetian Bandog.JPG, mainly because I like the picture and because it's a Bandog (Ban-dog - geddit?). Suitable quotes from the Bandog article include: "Bandogge which is a huge dog, stubborn, uglier, eager, burthenouse of bodie, terrible and fearful to behold and often more fierce and fell than any Archadian or Corsican cur" and "[Modern strains are] celebrated for their stable temperaments and outstanding working qualities". Hope that's enough to work with. As I said, the image may need cropping to focus on the dog. If that's a problem (license doesn't allow it, or you need someone to crop it), let me know. Carcharoth (talk) 01:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
My main concerns were no fair use (since it's a userbox for userspace) and that you're fine with it : )
I noticed the campaign idea, and thought it was a great one! - I've copied a privately musing version into my userspace pending the development of a killer slogan - but thought I should swing by here and mention that your current version points to last years election.. don't you have a 100% success rate, btw? - I hope the selected few know what they're letting themselves in for! cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 07:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out the link error. Hopefuly Jc37 will check back here and notice this. I should probably make one thing clear at this stage. Apart from talk page threads like this, I'm not having any notices or banners in my userspace about these elections. Suggesting an image for this campaignbox, created by Jc37, and approving of its use by others, is as far as I'm going in that direction. Otherwise things start to get silly. Carcharoth (talk) 13:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Oh, oops. I'll fix the date/link post-haste : ) - jc37 17:21, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Good luck on your arbcom candidacy. I'd be shocked if you weren't voted in, you're definitely great at dispute resolution. Wizardman 16:57, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks. Good luck to you as well. Carcharoth (talk) 17:11, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Discussion page for your candidacy

Y Done. My apologies - too much copying and pasting for one morning, there. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 03:00, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

While I'm at it, I have posted the list of General Questions to your questions page. I think one or two may have been added since you printed the list off, as an FYI - and I preserved your notation of intent to answer questions and so forth. Best, UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 14:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll update my printout tomorrow. Carcharoth (talk) 21:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
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