User talk:FloNight

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Contents 1 Puzzled 2 Thank you 3 Happy FloNight's Day! 4 Milhist 5 Your suggestion 6 Ginger Jolie deletion 7 Case needs intervention 7.1 Comment on proposal posted 8 Martinphi 9 g'day Flo 10 Proposed decision - Abtract-Collectonian 11 You got email 12 Courthouse project 13 Kuban Kazak-Hillock arbcom case 14 Email 15 Kentucky River gorge 16 RFC discussion of User:Privatemusings 17 The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008) 18 ArbCom_Bharatveer 19 Proposed decision - Piotrus 2

Puzzled

I am puzzled and frankly a bit offended by this comment on RFAr: "As pointed out by bainer, since the Community has not reached consensus on a policy/guideline on the topic, we have repeated cycles of the issue causing content disputes. The Community needs to find a way to write this policy and not look to the Committee to do it through Committee ruling that causes a back door policy decision that one side can link to in future discussions."

I am hard-pressed, with the exception of Randomran, to find anyone commenting on this request who has been more involved than I have in developing a consensus about notability. There is an active policy discussion on this, and I've worked hard on it - unlike, frankly, any of the arbcom or TTN. I filed this request because mass deletion requests are an active hindrance to general consensus, because deletion is a hostile process. My assumption was that this reasoning was why TTN's previous engagement in this behavior - editing purely to merge articles and delete them without any attempt at discussion - was sanctioned. Because it was an active impediment to consensus building.

Even if the arbcom wishes to get away from this issue and not issue any further rulings on it - a change of policy I can understand, even if I find it deeply regrettable, I greatly resent the claim that, by bringing this request, I am somehow looking to the Committee to create a back door policy.

I recognize that the committee is deeply disinclined to step into any issue involving notability (though I would ask where, in the absence of the committee, they foresee any sort of leadership on this issue coming from). But I wish that the committee would simply say that instead of accusing me of trying to back door policy when all I was doing was asking the committee to step in on an issue they had previously ruled upon. That accusation is unwarranted and offensive. Phil Sandifer (talk) 16:46, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Given that the Committee answered a query about the situation already, I do not think that our response is surprising. Reading the comments of the users on the request page, I note that as usual, the editors involved in the situation see the issue somewhat differently than other users that are not involved. FloNight♥♥♥ 17:39, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I was, it should be noted, unaware of the previous query - I had inquired idly on the mailing list as to why TTN had not been brought back to arbcom for his behavior, and nobody indicated that the answer was "actually, he has." Indeed, Matthew Brown seemed unaware that he had, and the archiving for rejected requests does not make finding out key pieces of information like that terribly easy.

As for the comment about involved users, I'm not sure what you're driving at. I am barely involved, frankly - I've had no real dealings with TTN. I mostly discovered the situation when I was trying to get some data on the practical question of what AfD does and doesn't keep, and discovered his nominations, which I found somewhat problematic. So again, I'd have to say that I don't feel like I should be lumped in with the group you're trying to lump me in with. Phil Sandifer (talk) 21:32, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

In my view you're involved because, as you state above, you have a stronger opinion than the average user about the issue. Some users feel that many Afds are needed to keep the non-notable articles thinned out. You see deletion as a hostile process and feel that the Afds are a hindrance. FloNight♥♥♥ 21:47, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Your determination to lump users into easily defined categories in lieu of actually looking at what is being said is regrettable. Phil Sandifer (talk) 13:16, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

While I still disagree with you on the matter with Steve, thank you for taking the time to explain the situation with me. I know I can come off as.. demanding.. and being an arb is not an easy job. I greatly appreciate it. -- Ned Scott 00:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. :-) Take care, FloNight♥♥♥ 19:55, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Happy FloNight's Day!

User:FloNight has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as FloNight's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear FloNight! Peace, e ~ A record of your Day will always be kept here.

Thank you. This is very kind of you. FloNight♥♥♥ 10:20, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:EVula/Userboxes/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Milhist

Hi! I see you're a member of the American Civil War task force but not of the Military history wikiproject itself. Would you like to sign up? You can do so here. Thanks in advance, -- ^talk 11:13, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, I added my name. FloNight♥♥♥ 11:43, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you :) Here's the standard Welcome message. Please delete it if it's telling you how to suck eggs :)

Your suggestion

Per your suggestion I've filed Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Hemanshu, but since he hasn't responded in over a year to inquiries, I'm not exactly optimistic on him responding to it. MBisanz ^talk 01:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Ginger Jolie deletion

I urge you to reconsider your stance. Your comments regarding DRV are particularly inapposite. Since the Committee has established the policy committing a decision to the discretion of a single, self-selected adminstrator when the community is divided (and, in theory, even if it is not), the decision in a matter like this is procedurally correct, whatever its outcome. This is a problem created by the Arbitration Committee, and only it can resolve it. As you accurately state, this is a "community matter," and a major part of the problem is that the decision was taken from the hands of the community and decided by the preferences of a single, self-selected administrator. Minos P. Dautrieve (talk) 12:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Case needs intervention

I request some urgent arbitrator's intervention into the pages of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus 2 and I am leaving this same note to all four Arbitrators who commented on the case so far.

The pages of the case have deteriorated beyond reasonable due to the conduct of some of the case participants. Please take a look at this new section of evidence for details. Yes, many bitter cases are filled with nonsense claims but there must be a limit to how much outright crankery can be tolerated at the ArbCom cases without any action taken.

Case' pages being turned into a total mess adversely affects the chances of the cohesive outcome. Too much nonsense in the cases pages buries the constructive entries and make the whole pages unreadable or incomprehensible. This leads to the arbitrators' non-participation in the discussions, which, in turn, brings, and I am not going to sugar-coat this, the case's outcomes being often too disconnected from actual concerns raised at its pages. This is why, I am calling for a rather unusual remedy to be applied to a case itself.

I would like to request that some aggressive clerk-like work is applied to the pages of the case: the workshop and the evidence. This cannot be left to clerks since this requires application of the discretion on the cases merits beyond the freedom given to clerks. If you could go over the current evidence and workshop pages and aggressively remove the patent nonsense and senseless rants (including my own entries if they are perceived as such), the benefit would be two-fold. First, it would make case pages more readable and, thus, more useful. Second, it would send a strong message to all parties that their conduct in the case is being monitored and may have consequences that would, hopefully, switch everyone to a more constructive mode. When looking at the pages you would see at once that the nonsense there is abundant and its presence disrupts the case.

I am not requesting any sanctions against anyone at this point. All I am asking is to return some normalcy to the case' pages.

Thank you in advance. --Irpen 21:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

After requesting "ethical_conduct" from ArbCom, Irpen found my evidence so important that he decided to intervene contrary to his own request. I replied here (please see "bare facts").Biophys (talk) 16:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Comment on proposal posted

I am leaving this note at the talk pages of four arbitrators who so far commented on the Piotrus_2 arbcom. Just letting you know that I posted a general comment on the workshop proposal by Kirill Lokshin to the workshop's talk page. Regards, --Irpen 19:11, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll look. FloNight♥♥♥ 19:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Just giving you heads up that I responded to the followup question by one of your colleagues at the workshop's talk here. --Irpen 20:10, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Martinphi

Flonight, I am not Science Apologist. You seem to be mistaking me for him.

After my FIRST post EVER to Arbcom about Martinphi (unless you count the request for clarification on the Paranormal case to be specifically about Martinphi), you have publicly stated thee Arbcom knows full well my opinion, and I should shut up and let other people speak. This was my first time speaking on the matter. I am NOT Science Apoologist, I am not under any Arbcom restrictions for POV-pushing. Would you care to retract or rewrite your comment.person, you know. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 19:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

g'day Flo

Hi Flo - I hope you're well, and I thought I'd swing by here with a request re the User:Steve Crossin matter - I feel like I've dug around in quite a lot of detail at this point (you can see here what I've read up on), and in particular I found this diff very useful in clearing stuff up.

I also noticed that the WP:RFAR page is kinda quiet at the mo. so I thought I'd strike (again!) while the iron was, well, cold I guess :-)

I've chatted with Steve a bit about this, and it's clear to me that he would like to edit again as soon as possible, and if banned, would like to be able to make a statement of some sort (I feel fairly sure that others might wish to comment too, so perhaps a semi-formal 'evidence', 'workshop' process is actually a reasonable fit?). This isn't my call, of course, though - but what I would ask is that the 'internal committee vote' you refer to is formally certified 'on wiki' - some uncertainty remains in my mind over this, and it would no doubt help others to maintain Wikipedia:Editing_restrictions#Placed_by_the_Arbitration_Committee (I'm happy to update that page when this is cleared up etc. :-)

I'm happy to talk further about why I believe this is the best course of action for both the project, and for Steve - essentially it boils down to my belief that clarity is kind :-)

huge thanks for helping with this one in any way possible! cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 22:32, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

ping :-) (and there's a related chat on my talk page now, too :-) best, Privatemusings (talk) 23:33, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed decision - Abtract-Collectonian

In under 19 hours, this case will be two weeks old soon. All proposals pass, and one move to close has been made. If you could kindly hop on over to this page and vote on closing, that'd be great. Cheers :) Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:45, 28 October 2008 (UTC) Y Done

Can't get much more prompt than that - appreciate it (and your thoughts, as always). :D Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem. FloNight♥♥♥ 18:22, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

You got email

White Cat, look for an email from me. FloNight♥♥♥ 15:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

My response and the only comment I will make on the matter is utter disappointment at arbcom. The ban was placed by the community, not arbcom. It would be strange for arbcom to lift a ban arbcom did not even went as far as endorsing. Arbcom did not even accept the Jack Merridew arbcom case as "he was already community blocked". The user has been indef banned like three times and you are willing to lift that. It hasn't even been a year. I do want to remind arbcom that they went out of their way to even talk about lifting my three-year-old mediation ban. To an untrained eye (my eye) it seems like arbcom only and only rewards extremely poor conduct such has harassment going on for years. -- Cat ^chi? 07:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

While I do not normally expect prompt responses, I'd welcome a response before arbcom decides on the matter. -- Cat ^chi? 18:38, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Since arbcom is not willing to be the solution to this problem and insists on being the source it, I have brought this matter into Jimbo's attention. I do not know if he will get involved. I hope he does. I am tired of dealing with this issue which will soon celebrate its fifth anniversary as of 12 May 2009. -- Cat ^chi? 21:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

White Cat, I'll listen to Jimbo's thoughts, of course. But if he can edit without bother you, then I think we should let him come back. Jack Merridew will be under editing restrictions that will keep him completely away from you and from commenting about you. One or more experienced users will be monitoring his contributions to make sure that he is not bothering you in any way. I made the restrictions strict in this way because of the problems that you had in the past. I think we should give it a chance to work, truly. FloNight♥♥♥ 22:08, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

We already tried that in commons. That didn't quite stop him. After his ban from en.wikipedia his first few edits on commons were stalking which has seemingly stopped. He doesn't make any edits there anymore.

This user had no useful contributions. He dedicated his time in removing my work. Weather it is Turkey related topics, or weather it is Anime related topics or any other topics I care about like mass removing episode and character articles. His ban here has not lasted half a year. Has it been quarter of a year?

Arbcom wasn't willing to lift my mediation ban. Why is arbcom removing Jack Merridew's ban? Is he more worthy to the community than I? I really want to know.

I demand arbcom to document their reasoning in detail. Why am I even having this conversation with arbcom? Jack Merridew is a sanctioned troll and sockpuppeter. He was convicted multiple times in harassing multiple users - of which at least three times by arbcom. He had absolutely no useful contribution for the past few years aside from an edit pattern that closely resembles User:TTN who IIRC was banned by arbcom for his edit pattern.

-- Cat ^chi? 22:38, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I still do want to know why arbcom isn't willing to lift my mediation ban yet is considering lifting Jack Merridews indef ban. After all he was the very reason I got that ban. He interfered with every mediation attempt I made. -- Cat ^chi? 04:17, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Your mediation ban is a separate issue, but I will be glad to raise it with the Arbitration Committee now. FloNight♥♥♥ 10:27, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

You may want to review the evidence and rephrase that statement. Arbcom did a poor job back then. I want all the relevant evidence reviewed.

• My prohibition from mediating was passed 4 to 3 #Coolcat prohibited from mediating and four workshop sections were linked to the rationale. I'll give you a snapshot
  • #Mediation and opposition: Links to this diff where Jack Merridew (aka Davenbelle) did not even let me adjust section depths. This is evidence of Davenbelle stalking. I had no vested interest in the article Javier Solana yet Davenbelle followed me to that article and completely disrupted my mediation attempt with his constant revert waring even over the most minor issue documented in this paragraph.
  • #Coolcat's status as a mediator: I self nominated myself to MedCom on 4 April 2005. Among the people opposing was Jack Merridew (aka Davenbelle).
  • #Coolcat's mediation efforts at Greco-Turkish relations: Revert war by Davenbelle over my format edits. I tried to use a color scheme and Jack Merridew (aka Davenbelle) revert wared to remove it. He later revert wared over a typo fix I had. To date he made one and only one edit to the article. Clearly his interest was not the article in question but instead was my involvement.
  • #Nanking Massacre: Jack Merridew (aka Davenbelle) was of course involved but so was Karl Meier (aka Stereotek) who revert wared over thumbnail sizes with me. Fadix (aka many aliases: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan#Blocks for violation of revert parole: Didodo, Rodolui, Drosophilawhodoestnotfl, Anatolmethanol) later joined the joint harassment.
    • Fadix got a one year ban on 11 April 2007 which was extended until 25 February 2009 due to the abusive use of sockpuppets. The only relevance this has to my case is that this is was one of the three guys that interfered with my mediation attempt.

In conclusion Jack Merridew (aka Davenbelle) has interfered with each and every one of my mediation attempts even on articles he made no contribution at all (Javier Solana). The "separate issue" isn't as separate as it seems to be. The evidence speaks for itself. All arbcom needs to do is look at it.

-- Cat ^chi? 15:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

You know, let me tell you what is going to happen.

• Arbcom will lift the ban of Jack Merridew. We certainly need more people like him on the project.
• Arbcom will not actually discuss my mediation ban. We certainly do not want anyone like me on the project the slightest bit of courtesy.
• Jimbo will not even get involved. Imagine helping out in a complicated - yet not so complicated case. I can understand his reasoning. Sure. I respect what he is doing. But if arbcom is this incompetent and unwilling to be the solution who else can I go to?

Arbcom is very predictable with their incompetence. So I am sure all three things I stated above will become a reality.

Now tell me, why should I or anyone even care about obeying any policy or guideline?

• Evidently arbcom will never enact any long term sanctions. At most arbcom would blocks for something like three months...
• Arbcom will go out of their way to incompetently ignore any and all relevant evidence even when the case is a slam dunk. All arbcom needed to do was read the evidence - which arbcom did not even glance at. The community (non-arbcom) banned Jack Merridew forever. And once that was over arbcom is going out of it's way to allow the freak back and by doing so arbcom overrules the community ban probably for the first time in wiki history (we aren't talking about a ban by a single user but by multiple users). Arbcom is only and only helping once side of the dispute and that side clearly was never me. Not in 2005, not in 2006, not in 2007 and of course not in 2008. The fact that I am listing four years says something, doesn't it?

The sad part of it all is that this isn't the first time. I had to deal with the nonsense by MARMOT spoofing IPs and all. Brion has a report on it. I'll let you find it but I know you will not even look at it so there really is no point in me presenting a link. MARMOT too was given a second chance and he used it to make my day miserable. For that he was later unblocked. Fortunately he left the community or else I am sure arbcom would go out of their way to help MARMOT continue to be the source of annoyance.

You know, I am not sure why arbcom is committing this illogical and disruptive behavior. Why is it that arbcom is so unwilling to be a part of a solution and going out of it's way to be the very source of the problem? I do not know what motivates arbcom to act this irrationally.

Maybe what prompted this nonsense is me trying to help arbcom with the CSI thing. Clearly, arbcom doesn't need any help as they do just fine in ignoring presented evidence.

-- Cat ^chi? 18:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

On an unrelated note, I would recommend arbcommers to comment on the WP:VPP#A wiki equavalent of CSI (developing idea) thread. The proposal should be shaped to meet the needs of arbcom above everything else after all. -- Cat ^chi? 07:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Forget about it. Arbcom doesn't care about evidence. What good would it do if the evidence is collected by impartial parties if arbcom is going to ignore it. -- Cat ^chi? 18:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Courthouse project

We're down to needing only five more courthouse pictures of Kentucky, that "Retired Username" started. It was 11, but I took six this past week. Thought you might want to know.-- 00:31, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Fantastic. :-) This was a great project. With the large number of counties in rural areas, the driving time to cover the State made the Courthouse project a formidable endeavor. I appreciate the hard work that you and "Retired Username" put in to it. FloNight♥♥♥ 15:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I plan to take pictures of Nicholasville's ACW monument and Camp Nelson on Wednesday.-- 15:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Kuban Kazak-Hillock arbcom case

Hi, you recently signalled your intent to accept a case on Kuban kazak. It is not my position to direct you to change your intent, however, I would like to ensure that you have read all the statements which were submitted to the case in question after you signalled your intent to take this case on board. In the event that you haven't kept up with developments on the case, could you please review the case again, and consider if it does in fact require arbcom intervention. Thanks. --Russavia ^{Dialogue Stalk me} 03:02, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I kept abreast of the discussion but thanks for letting me know. FloNight♥♥♥ 20:10, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Email

Hi FloNight,

I sent you an email last night (: Please bear in mind I don't want Elonka to be damaged. ——Martin^phi ☎ Ψ Φ—— 19:55, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Kentucky River gorge

Has your hubby taken any pictures of the Kentucky River gorge by Camp Nelson? I was too much in a rush to take pictures of it yesterday, and it would help my new Camp Nelson Civil War Heritage Park article.-- 20:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Reply on Bedford's talk page. FloNight♥♥♥ 14:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The only other thing I can really think of is an old train station at 701 S. Broadway in Lexington. I like doing articles on old stations; I'm fixing on improving the Stanford one soon.-- 22:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I like trains and train depots, as well. I originally come from Huntington WV, which was a planned town built by Collis P. Huntington.

Sadly, the Southern Depot on South Broadway in Lexington was demolished on July 11, 1992. We lived in Lexington back then, and I remember when it happened. It was in terrible shape by the time we move to Lexington in the mid-1980's.

The Stanford article re-write is fantastic. :-) I showed my husband last night and he was thrilled as well. We have a few more pics of the depot and the park around it, iirc. I'll look to see if we have anything that would help on the article. FloNight♥♥♥ 17:53, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I guess no one bothered to get the Lexington station delisted. I'll need to go out eventually and take pictures of the few remaining monuments on List of Civil War Monuments of Kentucky.-- 18:09, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

RFC discussion of User:Privatemusings

A request for comments has been filed concerning the conduct of Privatemusings (talk · contribs). You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Privatemusings. -- MBisanz ^talk 01:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll look. Interested to see the comments. Sorry for the slow reply, for the past week I've been traveling with limited internet access. FloNight♥♥♥ 14:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008)

The October 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:54, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom_Bharatveer

This is in response to your comment in Arbcom_case.Regarding this,(Bharatveer), you have mentioned that "Last year's editing restrictions did not stop the disruptive editing so this year a different approach is needed." As you know , User:Toddst initiated this case after my edits at Binayak Sen, an AFD proposed by me (Hindu Taliban) & Chandrayaan. Please see my contributions([1]). All of my edits in this particular article were about cleaning up the article and adding more references. Please see the talk page , where I had tried to initiate discussions on this. Please note that it was me who had asked for admin intervention in this article. Please note that other editors (SPAs) were in no way adhering to WP policies. Even in this situation, I had reverted as per WP:3RR. I hope you will notice that I have not "disrupted" this article in any manner. Regarding my other 2 edits, it should be noted that those edits are in no way "disruptive to WP" in any manner. With due respect, I request you to reconsider your earlier decision.-Bharatveer (talk) 08:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed decision - Piotrus 2

I think you wanted to support the Fof on Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Piotrus_2/Proposed_decision#Halibutt because of line 383 here, but forgot to sign? Wanted to clarify. :) Ncmvocalist (talk) 04:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)