Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greece

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Archive 1: September 2006 – February 2007 Archive 2: March 2007 – October 2007 Archive 3: 2007 -

Macedonia (terminology) FAR

Macedonia (terminology) has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

FAC for the Byzantine navy now open

I have just nominated the Byzantine navy article for FA. All editors are invited to participate, all comments are welcome. Thanks, Constantine ✍ 14:09, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Greek national costumes

Hi all. There's an image which I'm trying to identify the content of - it's been reported that the people in it aren't wearing Greek traditional costumes, as was claimed in the metadata. If anyone could take a look and confirm this, it'd be great - the image is now on Talk:Greek Canadians with a comment. Shimgray | talk | 11:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I checked in my various books on greek traditional costumes. The head-dresses are not greek. Cédric Boissière (talk) 15:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

New coordinator?

It's been days since Yannis left us in a "semi-retired" fashion. Should we vote as to who will replace him as coordinator of WikiProject Greece? This is just a suggestion. Deucalionite (talk) 17:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, please correct me if I am mistaken or I missed something, but I thought WP:GREECE officially does not anyway have a coordinator...--Michael X the White (talk) 17:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Let me put it this way. Yannis made significant contributions to this WikiProject to the point where he assumed a leadership role. He produced newsletters, attracted users to contribute, and helped articles achieve FA status. Face it, Yannis left a big gap in our ranks and we need to somehow fill it. Any suggestions? Deucalionite (talk) 20:37, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Which is why I don't see why he left. He should just put that discussion behind him and come back. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I see your point. In that case, however, a member to play the same important role for the WProject will arise by merit and by actions, the same way Yannis did. Even if we vote, the elected will not in any way replace Yannis. So, briefly, I see two possibilities: 1) we either let anyone arise the same way Yannis did or 2) we stage a discussion here about official WP:Greece coordinator(s), their term, responsibilities,etc. (I 100% agree with you Grk1011. There is sometimes a great bitterness that is caused from events and discussions in Wikipedia, especially to a user such as Yannis, that is a positive, active, rare user. When acts against him are such, where there should be reward, bitterness and disappointement walk hand in hand. And Yannis has "invested" much time and good faith in Wikipedia to be treated as he was in that discussion. I think he is a very logical and sensible person, and sensitive enough to take some time off to overcome the bitterness and be back in full force. I think this is unfair for him and disastrous for WP:GREECE, and Wikipedia in general,but, while I'd like him to be back, I also respect his decision and hope this will not last long. I'd like to say here that Yannis took a break because of an unfair accusation of lack of civility, while others, are not only accused, but the accusations are totally fair and correct, and they're still here. Now, I won't mention names, because I'll have trouble and threatening, nor I mention this to accuse someone. I only say this to underline that Yannis is a person with a moral code. It is unfortunate for Wikipedia that users like Yannis, or, earlier, Hectorian, leave and certain others remain.I hope Yannis will be back soon.) --Michael X the White (talk) 21:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

It would literally take a miracle for Yannis to come back. Deucalionite (talk) 21:40, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we need a co-ordinator as such but instead someone who could attempt to do the things thay Yanni did like the newsletter and updating the pages. Also I would like to put this forward, what should happen about the Grek War of Independence drive. Do we consider it defunct? Kyriakos (talk) 11:56, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I say its status is on hold.--Michael X the White (talk) 12:34, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

It's first now that I realize how empty this project looks without Yannis' remarks. But he left us a patrimony and we have to go on. The only thing that gives me any hope is that he is "semi" retired and not "permanently" retired. Η ελπίδα πεθαίνει πάντα τελευταία... Pel thal (talk) 16:56, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Lesbian

The wikipage for lesbian talks all about the sexual phenemenon instead of the inhabitants and the language. While the gay page does mention the original, alternative meaning (and significant mention of it), the lesbian page tends to neglect this. Obviously, not been able to read Greek I can't weigh in with alternative sources and whathaveyou. I was wondering if a reader of the Greek language (preferrably a lesbian (from Lesbos that is, which I imagine is standard in you lexicon) could contribute to the discussion on that page. Lihaas (talk) 02:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Exodus of sense from Wikipedia...

Please everyone, check this article: Exodus of ethnic Macedonians from Greece. It gives undue weight to the non-notable part of FYROM origin people leaving Greece after the Civil war, promoting it (it is clear from the title even) to a major event in the Balkans and particularly Greece. It has two way POV (communist-FYROM) and refers to terms such as "Aegean Macedonia". It is the transformation of what once was another article, and this was not done with consensus.--Michael X the White (talk) 18:22, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Help request: 1236 Greece-related articles needing geographical coordinates

Based on a search of Wikipedia's articles related to Greece, I've found some articles that I believe are about places in Greece, and could usefully have geographical coordinates added.

The articles in question are listed in Category:Greece articles missing geocoordinate data. At the time of writing, some examples included:

1. Amphipolis Archaeological Museum
2. Ano Dorio
3. Kalamos, Kythira
4. Kilkis Archaeological Museum
5. Metaxades
6. Níki, Greece
7. Pamisos

...and there are many more, as well. At the time of posting this notice, there were 1236 articles in this category needing geographical coordinates.

Why add coordinates?

By adding coordinates, a Wikipedia reader can easily view the location on a street map, nautical chart, topographic map, by satellite photo, realtime weather map, and in many other ways. Coordinate data makes an article eventually appear in various services such as Google Maps' Wikipedia overlay, Google Earth, and Wikipedia's own internal map service. Coordinate data also helps readers looking for geographically-based data, such as locations near a reference point, or related information.

How can I do it?

The articles are all marked with {{coord missing}} tags, which need to be replaced with {{coord}} tags that contain the location's latitude/longitude coordinates; or you might be able to add coordinates to an existing infobox. You can find out how to do this at the Wikipedia:Geocoding how-to for WikiProject members.

Please let me know if this is useful, or if I can help in any way. -- The Anome (talk) 22:29, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikiproject barnstar abused

I just saw this nice little personal attack clothed in this project's "official" barnstar, left by one nationalist POV-warrior on the talk page of another. I'm not going to remove it myself (me being the intended target, obviously), but I'd appreciate it if somebody told that person that this wikiproject doesn't endorse such actions. Compared with other national projects, this one has in the past been relatively free from nationalist battleground mentality; I'd like it to remain that way. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:27, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

"POV warrior"? You are not talking about yourself, are you? Walnutjk (talk)

This issue was brought to WP:ANI here. I have declined to take action, as it seems that Future Perfect should have been the one to bring it up. As it is, it doesn't really seem like something necessary to bring to an admin board, but feel free to comment there. | 19:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Exodus of Ethnic Macedonians from Greece

I request that all participating members/editors take a look at this pitiful mess - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Exodus of Ethnic Macedonians from Greece.

Please submit your votes or at least some rational commentary. Thank you Deucalionite (talk) 19:48, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Macedonia userbox

I had in my userpage a userbox, which explained my views about the naming dispute of Fyrom/Macedonia. Unfortunately, it was deleted by an administrator, because it promoted nationalism, he said. Feel free to see what's the official's wikipedia view about this specific topic [[1]].--Alexikoua (talk) 05:37, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Maniots or Maniates

I have been thinking about this lately I thought I would put it up here before I do anything. Should the article's name be Maniates -the Greek name- or Maniots? All comments are appreciated. Kyriakos (talk) 09:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I think it should be renamed to Maniates, as that is their Greek name. That is just my personal opinion though... However, maybe we should take into consideration what a non-Greek person would think about first. Since this is the English WP version, maybe a non-Greek would find it more natural to search/google for Maniots rather than Maniates? I'm not so sure. This issue can become more complicated if you think about the consequences of renaming similar articles: for example Tsakonians/Tsakones, Arvanites, Pontic Greeks/Pontioi etc. If the Greek name is to be used, then all similar articles should be renamed to their Greek version (e.g. Tsakones). Anyone else on this subject? Pel thal (talk) 14:20, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Isn't WP policy to use the most common english title for the article - hence Elgin Marbles rather than Parthenon Marbles for the relevant page? I prefer Maniots as someone reading about them in an english language book wanting to know more is going to be searching for that term. --5telios (talk) 17:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Maniatws gets 25,700 hits on Google compared to the Maniots 6,080. It seems that Maniates is the most common of the two. If the name i s to change, it would take a massive overwhole, which I would be willing to do. Kyriakos (talk) 23:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I would caution that most of those Google hits are for the name Maniates, a fairly common surname for people from the region. If you remove the proper names, you will find that Maniots, however discordant that may sound to speakers of Greek, is the most common English designation for the people. Perhaps a better measure would be not the number of Google hits, which are fairly indiscriminate, but the number of hits on an English language academic database like JSTOR. I performed this search myself, and once I had discounted the musicologist Maria Rika Maniates, the economist Michael Maniates, etc, the results are squarely in favor of Maniots. Aramgar (talk) 00:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Vassilis Makris

Unfortunately I cannot read Greek. Is Vassilis Makris -- allegedly translated from the Greek by an editor of four years' experience whose self-intro starts "I am from the free Universe. I will bring humans super-advanced technology right from outer space. I am a kid." -- a grotesque attempt at a deserved article, or should it just be PRODded into oblivion? -- Hoary (talk) 01:44, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi! Just read the Greek article on Vassilis Makris. Believe it or not, the English edition is an actual translation of the Greek version. However, the English article needs cleaning up because in its present state it sounds like a bad translation from the Greek... I'll try to work on it today or tomorrow. Cheers! Pel thal (talk) 13:19, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! But if it is indeed a translation then it's highly suspect, as it seems to have a total of zero independent sources. (Or does badness of translation extend to zapping sources?) Even if you don't have time/effort/interest to source all of this (and I wouldn't blame you), could you perhaps google the fellow and just reassure yourself that he's for real? Thanks! -- Hoary (talk) 15:21, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Just googled Vassilis Makris in Greek and yes, he exists. I'm not going to add sources because I'd like to be sure of their correctness etc. but I will certainly clean up the language and see if the Greek version cites any veritable sources. Happy editing! Pel thal (talk) 15:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks muchly. -- Hoary (talk) 23:06, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Eww, why is there a double "s"? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 23:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Concerning the double "s", it has probably been named so in order for the reader to pronounce it correctly (as an "s" and not as a "z"). However, we can always change it. Concerning the article, I have just cleaned up its language. If you can think of an even better translation, please feel free to help. I'm sure that there are several articles horribly translated; anyone who comes across such an article, please put it on this page so we can clean it up. Happy editing to everyone! Pel thal (talk) 12:22, 17 November 2008 (UTC)