Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems

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Welcome at this talk pages of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems. This pages is open for everybody to respond. Feel free to do so. For other questions ask Mdd.


Contents

Overview of the field of Systems science - April 2008

I added the following overview of systems science to the List of academic disciplines today. -- Mdd (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Systems science (version 0 (24.02.08))

Further comments

If any one have any more suggestions please let me know. -- Mdd (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

1: A separate Dynamical systems theory section

I think the overview (version 0) should be update with a separate Dynamical systems theory section. Now there are three options here:

A. A section called Dynamical systems theory
B. A section called Mathematical system theory.

The problem here is that Mathematical system theory has no article of its own at the moment.

C. A section named Dynamical systems

-- (Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 22:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC))

2: Complexity theory removed

Complexity theory could and or should be removed because I it is not a separate field. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 19:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

3: Systems dynamics located under Operations research

Systems dynamics and Social dynamics can be located under Operations research -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 22:44, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

4: (Two) more fields

Two more fields are suggested:

The problem here is, that there aren't any overview articles here (yet). -- 20:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Further Assessment of the fields of Systems science - May 2008

Around 15 May an initiative has started to reassess and further assess all articles in the ten different fields of systems science.

The field of chaos theory

I further assessed and reassessed (as far a I can se now) all articles in the field of chaos theory. I hereby assessed the folowing 5 categories:

I didn't assess the folowing 3/4 categories, for different reasons:

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

In total
  • 195 articles have been tagged
-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 14:33, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The field of cybernetics

I reassessed most articles in the

Multiple articles in the category cybernetics are also categorised in the systems theory and control theory categories. Of those articles I will assessed the more general articles in thw field of systems theory, and the more technical and mathematical articles in field of control theory.

Now I am not so sure about the other subcategories.

I don't think these categories could be seen as part of the field of cybernetics.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 18:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

At the moment:
  • In total some 150 articles have been tagged.
  • Over one thousand articles in the other categories.
-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The field of control theory

I will continu with the field of control theory, with:

In this field of control theory there is a split the more mathematical control theory and the more practical control engineering. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 13:20, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

At the moment in total:
  • Some 286 articles in the field of control theory have been tagged.
  • The category filter theory offers an other 116 articles
  • The category automation offers some 110 and more articles.
The question here is how far I should go. Now I have to take into consideration that the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team wants to tag all articles. Since the category filter theory and category automation are in no other WikiProject three things can be done.
  1. Bring them (partly) under the WikiProject Systems
  2. Bring them (partly) under an other WikiProject, for example WikiProject Robotics
  3. Start a new WikiProject Automation.
-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 13:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The field of dynamical systems

The structure of the field

This structure shows:

  • The interdiscplinairy scope of dynamical systems between systems sciences and natural sciences
  • About 6 categories to assess: Dynamical systems, Bifurcation theory, Ergodic theory, Limit sets, Non-linear systems, Random dynamical systems & Stability theory
  • In total about 248 articles to assess in the field of dynamical systems.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

First part done here -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 22:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Second part done -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The field of operations research

The structure of the field, seen from the category:operations research:

Now in total, if we skipp the

Then in total about 770 articles remain here.

The question off cause is where to draw the line. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 19:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Overall

In total in the fields:

In total about 967 articles now reassessed -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 00:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Two or more fields

I wonder if there should be two or even more fields of systems science defined here:

A problem here is, that there aren't any overview articles here (yet).

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 19:24, 2 June 2008 (UTC) - 17:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

New assessment structure with fields - July 2008

The assessment structure have been changed. Now 13 fields have been introduced, see Category:Systems articles by fields.

In total now 1053 articles with fields in the categories.

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 11:37, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme

As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.

  • The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
  • The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
  • A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team,  () 21:23, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Template issues

Hi - I've recently started noticing issues with the sys rating template:

--Jiuguang (talk) 19:07, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I have noticed this before, but haven't solved this yet. The problem here is in the source code of the Template:Sys rating. There are in fact two problems with this particular case: The template class and the Non Article NA-class articles doens't automatically categorize. I will take a look at it, or ask some help. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 19:29, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
I have solved the first problem. The automatic link to the template class category. The second problem is more complex... or I just don't understand. I will ask for some help. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 19:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
User:Geometry guy made some changes. It should work now!? -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 13:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Yep, thanks to you both! --Jiuguang (talk) 14:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup

Currently, 523 articles are assigned to this project, of which 156, or 29.8%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place a template on your project page.

If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 18:18, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Where did get these numbers. There are 1612 articles assessed here, and there are 11 articles in need of attention, see [{:Category:Systems articles needing attention|here]}. That is less then 1%. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 22:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
The first number (523) refers to the number of articles tagged with {{WikiProject Systems}} on their talk page. It seems that you are alternatively using other templates, such as {{Sys rating}}. That is a very unusual approach - WikiProjects typically use only one talk page template, which includes all rating parameters needed. Perhaps it would be best if the templates could be merged, or simply {{Sys rating}} redirected to {{WikiProject Systems}}?
The second number (156) refers to articles tagged with cleanup tags like {{unreferenced}} and inline markers like {{fact}}, within the article. On the other hand, Cat:Systems articles needing attention is populated by setting "attention=yes" in the talk page template. So these numbers are entirely different. Normally, users do not care much about the talk page templates when adding a cleanup tag to the article, that's why only few articles can be found in Cat:Systems articles needing attention. Actually, that's one of the purposes of the listing I advertised - giving you an overview of pages that have cleanup tags, without any extra manual tagging required. --B. Wolterding (talk) 19:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, for your response. Now I have a few things to say/ask:
  • First, the {{Sys rating}} is the new template, which contains fields. Not all {{WikiProject Systems}} are altered yet. So suggesting to loose the first template is not a good idea.
  • Second I still don't understand where did you get those numbers? Did you count them one by one? Or is there a special function?
  • With "flagged for clean up" you also mean "fact required", "reference required" etc. then I am not surprized.
  • Now I haven't read instruction completely, but I seem to understand that there is no Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/Cleanup listing yet. I can requist for one. Is that correct?
-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 20:51, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok I got the picture myselve and added the "User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription" in an extra frame in the project page. Could you tell me if this works also? (The reason I did this in the first place is because I noticed that in Wikipedia:WikiProject Computing project place that the template itselve doesn't fitt the lay out). I'll wait an see thank you.
If you think that the temporary situation of the two templates is a problem, please let me know? -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:18, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
The subscription templates needs to go onto the main page, not a subpage; I've moved it. However, the box that appears can be hidden (I've done that now) and you can link to the listing from anywhere you like. It's at Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/Cleanup listing.
As for the templates, the listing at this time includes only articles tagged with {{WikiProject Systems}}. I only support one banner per project. However, if you want to include both, you can modify the banners so that they both put articles into a dedicated category, say Cat:WikiProject Systems articles or a different one to be created. Articles would go directly into that category, not into subcats. I can then scan that category. In any case, changes would be effective with the next data update, approximately end of August.
That's also linked to the question where I get the data from. I don't retrieve it from the live wiki; rather I use a local copy of (parts of) the Wikipedia database, from a data dump, and run queries on that database. --B. Wolterding (talk) 09:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your initiative. But if you only support one banner per project, you should support the new{{Sys rating}}, not the older (to be deleted) {{WikiProject Systems}}. Now I noticed some strange thing about this. The clean up listing for example mentions the chaos theory article, but this was reassessed with the {{Sys rating}} around 14 May 2008..!?
I wonder if you could give me a listing of those 523 articles tagged with {{WikiProject Systems}}? -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:16, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
It is this page, right? --Jiuguang (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I count there that the {{WikiProject Systems}} is in 759 pages (articles and categories). Even so the {{Sys rating}} seems to be in 1201 pages. This means there still 759 pages to reassess. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 22:32, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
In the subscription template, you can easily choose the banner you want to have evaluated; just add e.g. the parameter "banner=Sys rating". However the banner chosen there needs to be categorized in Cat:WikiProject banners, otherwise the bot will report an error. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Is Universal Product Code in your project's scope?

An IP user has recently added your project's banner to Talk:Universal Product Code, along with several others and other talk page banners. If this article is really in your project's scope, please rate it; otherwise please remove the banner. Thanks! Anomie⚔ 21:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Done, thank you. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 22:38, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Systems

Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Comment

I noticed several articles are more or less outsite the scope of the Wikiproject systems:

And some articles seems to be missing

And maybe some other systems scientists. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 20:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

New statistics

A new list is started with the Wikipedia article traffic statistics of the systems articles. See also here

Theory

Article title Feb 2008 Aug 2008
Chaos theory 120975 108860
Control theory 31873 24733
Systems theory 28677 19839
Cybernetics 25887 24742
Systems engineering 24133 25032
Systems thinking 13755 12681
Artificial life 11054 9498
Systems biology 10833 10914
World-systems theory 7415 3982
System dynamics 6206 5981
Catastrophe theory 6034 4226
Ecosystem ecology 5303 2898
Complex systems 2974 3685
Systems ecology 2547 1914
Systemics 2141 1558
Sociotechnical systems theory 2082 1805
Management cybernetics 1968 1380
General systems theory 1552 1575
Systems science 1473 2696
Living systems theory 1320 1152
Unified Modeling Language 98229 89765
Computer graphics 30711 36454
Scientific visualization 1168 3337
Systems art 1863

-- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 01:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

The list of Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/List of systems

I am starting to categorize the list of Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/List of systems The list just started at October 10. Template talk:Systems science#Over_2500_articles_about_systems_in_Wikipedia.

Please provide some categories list and stub categorical list and prevent them from being annonymouse and abandoned. I am currently involved in rougly22 template. Most of them are done already.

--Ramu50 (talk) 07:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

You are not to change the Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/List of systems into a thematical list. Such a list already exists, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems/List of systems (thematically).
If you want to start a new list on your own, feel free. Leave the current lists as they are. They are in fact part of the WikiProject Systems and not in Wikipedia main space. In the realm of the WikiProjects there are other rules.
If you don't trust me, ask any more experienced Wikipedian to verify what I am saying. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 12:22, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Astrophysics Data System

This is a FA article belonging to this project. Michael Kurtz, apparently an author of some of the articles used as source material, contacted me on my talk page and asked me to tag the unreferenced parts of the article. FA articles are currently being reevaluated to see if they continue to maintain FA standards. Hopefully, some editors from this project will update the page and endure that it still meets Featured article criteria. Regards, — (Talk) 16:43, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Systems"

This article is from Wikipedia. All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License.

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