Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Telecommunications

To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Telecommunications:

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Add your suggestions to the list of articles needing attention, for a common group effort. Inform the group at this talk page about ongoing disputes and survey votes that are related to the group. Contribute to the articles needing attention Move articles from categories that are too large. Add a suitable image to the project template:Tel Project for article talk pages Clean-up the WikiProject Telecommunications page from article reference older than 6 months.

This project page is within the scope of WikiProject Telecommunications, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Telecommunications on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 00:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Need advice on how to write new article on SCAM-FM

(This message was moved from the project page.)

Editor,

New Topic called SCAM-FM in radio communications.

I am interested in writing a new fundametal article in FM communications entitrld SCAM _FM and FM demodulation during periods of multipath reception.

Despite some seventy years of research in FM demodulation no-one has correctly analysed the true failure mechanism in multipath distortion. Multipath distortion is caused where the antenna passes through a region of SCAM-FM. This is where the delay echo path is 180 degrees or (2n-1) times 180 degrees and the signal is loss free, the same size as the original incident wave. It is not caused by thresholding. The Rician ot Rayleigh distributions have nothing whatever to do with the problem.

During SCAM-FM events, the carrier is sucked out of the composite carrier plus sidebands, and the origianl FM carrier is transformed into a double sideband Suppressed Carrier Amplitude Modulated Frequency Modulated signal(SCAM-FM). It cannot be demodulated using any standard type of FM demodulator.

These SCAM-FM zones are the fundamental reason for the failure of DAB radio as a transmission technique. The first publication of the analysis has now appeared in the magazine "Electronics World" in the current issue, December 2006. The same mechanism also applies in AM and in all form of digital phase amplitude transmission.

I need advice on how to proceed.

Archie Pettigrew ampsys@paisley.ac.uk 15:39, 27 November 2006 User:Ampsys

Feel free to create the article Suppressed carrier amplitude modulated frequency modulated! There is no editor here. You may start out from the article Single-sideband modulation, and link to multipath. Please have in mind that Wikipedia is not a place for original publications. If possible, please also refer to other than your own publications. When you are happy with the article, you may add a link to it for example at the modulation page, and at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Telecommunications project page. Mange01 21:32, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion: List of deployments

XDMA is a mobile technology that uses XDM multiplexing to provide something or other resembling a phone service.

LIST OF DEPLOYMENTS

Armenia

• Aadvark Telecom has deployed XDMA since 1972
• Apple Mobile recently launched it's XDMA network in 1892
• Armenian Mobile has announced plans to launch an XDMA network, sometime in 2098
• Aztec Communications has deployed XDMA in most major markets, and plans to cover 90% of Armenia in 2020
• Azzup!, the popular brewery/telecommunications conglomerate, uses XDMA in its pubs
• Borat Export launched a XDMA network in 2006. Unfortunately it's in Kazakistan.

...snip...

Albania

• Albaninet upgraded its network to XDMA in 1981
• ABC Telecom has deployed an XDMA network in Tirana but refuses to sell any phones
• BCA Telecom, ABC's rival, has launched an XDMA network everywhere except Tirana
• CBA Telecom, a joint venture of ABC and Vodafone, has launched an XDMA network in the South

...snip...

United States of America

• Alltel recently bought an XDMA network when it bought Defunct Wireless in 1961.
• Cingular launched an XDMA network in 2002
• Sprint is building out an XDMA network which it hopes to put online in 2005
• US Cellular upgraded its network to XDMA in 1973.

...snip...

(etc)

Is it just me, or should we, perhaps, be moving the massive lists of deployments in articles like UMTS, HSDPA, EV-DO, WiMAX, and others, to separate pages? I think the information's kind of useful, but it's enormous and not necessarily what we'd run over to a technology page to look at. A more useful entry would be something like:

Real World Deployments

Main article: List of XDMA Deployments World Wide

Since Vodafone UK's original roll-out in 1792, XDMA has been adopted by a number of carriers across the world, spanning 2196 countries, and is in use by an estimated 56 billion people.

You could even merge some of the deployment lists. HSDPA could appear under the UMTS deployments list for example.

Anyway, that's my suggestion Squiggleslash 00:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:24, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion: Category:Data transmission rename

Currently the categorization of communications and networking topics are very non-systematic, and is a mess.

I suggest that category data transmission is renamed to "communications technology" and most of the technical articles from category Telecommunications moved there or rather its subcatergories (which have to be created). Data transmission is a very wide and not a well defined term, and it is in many ways equivalent to (digital) telecommunications. I would suggest for example following subcateories:

• physical layer topics:
  • Category: Analog modulation topics
  • Category: Digital modulation topics
  • Category: Line codes
  • Category: Channel access methods
  • Category: Communication media (fiber, twisted-air, coax, wireless)
  • Category: Communication theory (Nyquist
  • Category: Communication channel topics (noise, multipath etc terms.)
  • Category: Synchronization
  • Category: Equalization
  • Category: Transmitting hardware components (?)
  • Category: Receiving hardware components (?)

• Link layer topics:
  • Category: Error detection and correction

• Network layer topics:
  • Category: Quality of service
  • Category: Queueing

• Higher layers are contained in Category:Computer networking

• Other stuff:
  • Category: Communication systems/standards (Ethernet, ISDN, DVB, SDH, etc)
  • Category: Voice

Applications and society-related topics should stay at the Telecommunications level. Perhaps OSI layer categories for corresponding general (non-protocol) topics should be added? What do you think? Alinja 18:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Very good initiative to start this discussion! But please wait a while and let everyone have a say in this issue. The suggestion would also affect WikiProject Computer networking, so it is important that we ask them before major changes are done.

Note that to rename, delete and reorganize many categories would require a lot of work.

Please clearify your suggestion. Which of today's categories should be deleted, renamed, merged, deleted and splitted? Today's category structure (or a quite recent status) is listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Telecommunications/Categories . How would that look like after your suggestion?

To start out from the 7 OSI layers or the 5 TCP/IP model layers is good, but isn't that already done? I have created several of the layer categories, and tried to map most of the communication issues to them. Is renaming of "x layer" to "x layer topics" really worth the job?

Note that the category structure does not have to be a spanning tree. Several issues are delt with at several layers. Error detection is carried out at every layer from physical to applicaiton. Error control and flow control is today normally carried out at the transport layer, and not only on the data link layer.

I have no problem with keeping for example the data transmission category in paralell with OSI-mapping - it is a well-established academic subject, synonymous to digital communication - and the category may still exist in parallell with other categories.

Mange01 22:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

My main point was to add categories for the classical telecommunications topics (as covered by books such as Proakis: Digital telecommunications an Carlson: Communication systems). This field has a lot of thoretic knowledge about modulation methods, channels, RF blocks, coping with reception issues, but don't really fit in any layer's protocol category. Also any of the analog communication articles don't really fit in the OSI model at all, nor is it data transmission.

I guessed that manual renaming would be a lot of work, as it seems that there's no automatic way to do such thing (to fix the article references). I didn't mean to touch the OSI layer categories, and in fact anything under computer neworking as it seems fairly organized.

Thanks for the catergory tree article, I hadn't found it before. There are some patterns in it that I find unintuitive. For example, Telecommunications is subcategory if Telecommunications engineering, Electronics directly under Telecommunications. Telecommunications also quite a big category with subcategories from societal topics to technical details and theories.

I made a suggestion at User:Alinja/Comms for an alternative categrization scheme, which should clarify my original idea. Don't take it too literally, as it was done largely by brainstorming, and copy&pasting from the original. I tried to use existing category names as much as possible, but especially the new names need attention.

Any comments? I may have misplaced something as I didn't browse thru all the categories. I didn't find a good use for "Data transmission" in this scheme, but probably there will be something for it too. Also, is "Computer networking" too artificial in this scheme? I don't think it necessarily is.

Alinja 08:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hasn't anyone got anything to comment?

Alinja 21:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

categories for deleteion

Category:Claude Shannon, Category:Norbert Wiener are up for deletion at WP:CFD 132.205.44.134 00:45, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

AfD

Apologies if this is not the appropriate place for this, but an AfD within your scope is underway: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matsui 1409T and the article: Matsui 1409T. DarkSaber2k 22:08, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

It's been deleted, time for a clean up? - Figarema 19:29, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Scope

Please write the scope of this project. Another note, there is a wikiproject that is a descdent of this project is about to be formed. Check Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Mobile Phones. 10:25, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Radar FAR

Radar has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Sandy (Talk) 23:02, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Mobile phone stub, and merge of category:mobile and category:mobile telephony

i think there should be a mobile phone stub category within the wireless category.. there sure are enough mobile phone stubs out there.. 131.111.24.187 09:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. We could use help maintaining Category:Mobile. I'd like to merge Category:Mobile Telephony into Category:Mobile. Telephony seems to be an abused term. Mathiastck 12:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Agree with both suggestions. Mange01 13:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Agree I don't see how one could say they are different. Figarema 19:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Deletion sorting

On the main WikiProject page, the following is related:

WikiProject Deletion sorting

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting is a new effort that attempts to classify various articles nominated for votes for deletion by major categories. The Telecommunications-related articles at VFD are listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Telecommunications.

Which is already red linked? Nothing there or this never happened? -- Figarema 19:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Has there been a discussion about whether this notification method will be pursued by this WikiProject?

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:31, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't beleive so, normally we are lucky if some one notices an article for deletion and mentions it on this talk page. If we put the page on our watch list we could see if something appears on it. SO I think its a good idea. I have noticed that projects are often unaware when one of their pages are destroyed by the deletion process and then complain on the deletion review requests. Graeme Bartlett 08:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Tower Mounted Amplifier

Tower Mounted Amplifier - up for AfD in May 2007, is unsourced. The result was Keep and Cleenup.

Given some big changes and looking for feedback, is it ok now? - Figarema 23:45, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikiproject Telecommunications! The article looks now a lot better, I think the sources are adequate now. Other feedback: I would re-order the article, starting with the benefits (integrating the drawback chapter in it), then moving on to technical details. Also, I think the article doesn't need to repeat Friis formula and that part could use some compacting. The top image could be cropped and pointed out whichbox is the amplifier (I can guess which ones, but it's betetr to be explicit). Just some suggestions if you still have ambition for further improvement. Alinja 08:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome, regarding your suggestions. Re-order, I agree - it may make it less techie to have the math at the end-, benefits/drawbacks would be too crowded if they are integrated and having it separated is more friendly towards newer contributions. Pointing out the TMA in the pictures, yes. The reason to repeat Friis Formula is to be able to run through the two worked out examples: with and without TMA; I'm happy with the content but perhaps there can be some "style"/"better looks" of showing that content, the article is not repeating the whole demonstration of how to arrive to Friis formula (thats in the Friis article) so I would not call it "repeating", more like "quoting" a mathematical formula before doing a demonstration. – Figarema 09:08, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

RuBee

Please have a look at the article RuBee. The article has some content ("RuBee Feng Shui" etc.) that a few editors consider nonsense, while another editor (chairperson of IEEE 1902.1, according to himself) thinks that this makes article easier to understand for others. If you're knowledgeable about the topic, you might wish to help in improving the article. utcursch | talk 09:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

About television networking and syndication

I have noticed the word "syndicated" when I read about television series. As I don't understand that word I read the article Broadcast syndication. I was a long well written article but since I don't live in th US, I still don't understand what it is. So I went on to read the articles Broadcast network and Television network to get a clearer picture of television networking and syndicated television. But they are, unfortunately, written with the assumption that everyone knows something about how television is organized in the US or at least in Northern America. I don't, I live in Sweden where we, as I understand from the articles read, don't have television networks. The point is that the articles are good, and they state clearly that they describe how it works in the US (some kind of global perspective), but they do not explain HOW it actually works and what it is. That information is still missing. Åsa L 18:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I have the same problem. But I'm from the same country as you. In the U.S. they don't have Teracom... I suggest that you write the same comment on the Talk:Broadcast syndication page. Mange01 (talk) 01:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Notice of List articles

Page(s) related to this project have been created and/or added to one of the Wikipedia:Contents subpages (not by me).

• List of basic telecommunication topics
• List of basic Internet topics
• List of basic computer science topics
• List of basic information technology topics

This note is to let you know, so that experts in the field can expand them and check them for accuracy, and so that they can be added to any watchlists/tasklists, and have any appropriate project banners added, etc. Thanks. --Quiddity 20:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:AFD on Error-correcting codes with feedback

Error-correcting codes with feedback has been nominated for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Error-correcting codes with feedback 132.205.99.122 (talk) 23:05, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Prodding of cellphones

I have noticed an admin is going thru the cell-phones, prodding them more or less systematically, with the reason "Non-notable commercial product. Wikipedia is not a Sony/Ericsson catalog. ", or "Non-notable commercial product. Wikipedia is not a Lucky Goldstar catalog." and so one. Does you at this project have an opinion on this? Should Wikipedia have articles on the individual cell-phone, or not? Personally, I think it should, but I will take a wiki-break now, also, I think it should be more of a project-related thing to deprod this phones (and advocate for them in the AfD you get in that case). Any opinions? Greswik 17:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I think that not every phone needs its own article, after all there is only so much one can write about say a Nokia 1100 and several of these phones can be put in one article as with Nokia 68xx series Towel401 (talk) 12:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Possible duplicate articles

On the article talk pages, User:Colin99 is wondering if Mobile Telephone System and Mobile Telephone Service should be merged. Also, I am proposing that Advanced Mobile Phone Service be merged into a history section in Advanced Mobile Phone System Discuss at Talk:Advanced Mobile Phone System. Jason McHuff (talk) 13:06, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Greenspun illustration project: requests now open

Dear Wikimedians,

This is a (belated) announcement that requests are now being taken for illustrations to be created for the Philip Greenspun illustration project (PGIP).

The aim of the project is to create and improve illustrations on Wikimedia projects. You can help by identifying which important articles or concepts are missing illustrations (diagrams) that could make them a lot easier to understand. Requests should be made on this page: Philip_Greenspun_illustration_project/Requests

If there's a topic area you know a lot about or are involved with as a Wikiproject, why not conduct a review to see which illustrations are missing and needed for that topic? Existing content can be checked by using Mayflower to search Wikimedia Commons, or use the Free Image Search Tool to quickly check for images of a given topic in other-language projects.

The community suggestions will be used to shape the final list, which will be finalised to 50 specific requests for Round 1, due to start in January. People will be able to make suggestions for the duration of the project, not just in the lead-up to Round 1.

• General information about the project: m:Philip_Greenspun_illustration_project
• Potential illustrators and others interested in the project should join the mailing list: mail:greenspun-illustrations

thanks, pfctdayelise (talk) 13:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC) (Project coordinator)

Any thoughts on {{FS1037C MS188}} template

Hi,

I've placed a comment on Template talk:FS1037C MS188, questioning the validity (or usefulness) of this template. I thought I'd just leave a note here, as I imagine members of this Wikiproject might have some thoughts on the matter, and any comments would be appreciated.

Regards, Oli Filth^(talk) 00:41, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

For me it is a good warning sign, since this source is old and i.m.o. nonacademic and incomplete. However, people might interprete it as some kind of quality guarantee. The template should be removed from articles that are rewritten. Mange01 (talk) 23:03, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Debate on DVB-H article name change

There may be a problem (at least for me!) in the name change of the article DVB-H, which has been recently moved to DVB-H and evolution to DVB-SH, by User:Steppu75, which, instead of discussing about this in the talk page, insists in renaming the article. He moved it first to DVB-H/SH, which I moved back to DVB-H after leaving a message in the talk page. Then, he came back and changed to DVB-H and evolution to DVB-SH. Now, I'd like to have the opinion of the TC project members, before beginning a "move" war. --Cantalamessa (talk) 21:15, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yellow Pages

Would someone with knowledge of business directories in more than one country care to take a look at Yellow Pages? I've made a few suggestions on its talk page, but don't feel competent to finish the work off myself. Certes (talk) 13:44, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

There also seems to be a difference of opinions between IP editors at both Yellow Pages and yellowpages.com as to the notability or relevance of Bobby Kalili (or Khalili), C. Ronald Oister and others. I don't think it would be helpful for me to interfere, but perhaps someone more knowledgeable should. Certes (talk) 13:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

According to www.yellowpages.travel/history , Ronald Oisters name is not present. I believe this source to be correct because all YellowPages domains are owned by AT&T including yellowpages.travel.

InternetHistorian 6/30/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by InternetHistorian (talk • contribs) 14:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Comparison_of_CECB_units

Is this article's subject within the scope of this wikiproject? (I looked for a wikiproject tag on related articles and found yours on Talk:Digital television) I've looked at it after an issue was mentioned on AN/I and I think an outside opinion is necessary. —Random832 14:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Well why not? I think you are free to add our wikiproject tag there. Perhaps you also might find someone at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Electronics that can assist. I did not find the AN/I issue you mentioned. Mange01 (talk) 12:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Survey: bit/s/Hz, (bit/s)/Hz or bit·s⁻¹·Hz⁻¹ as Spectral efficiency unit?

Please vote at Talk:Eb/N0#Survey on which unit that should be used at Wikipedia for measuring Spectral efficiency. For background, see the discussion at Talk:Spectral_efficiency#Bit/s/Hz and at Talk:Eb/N0#Bit/s/Hz. Mange01 (talk) 07:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Survey: Split the SONET article into separate SONET and SDH articles, or rename it to SONET/SDH?

Plase vote at Talk:Synchronous_optical_networking#Survey Mange01 (talk) 19:47, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Survey: Merge of the Baud rate/Baud, Symbol rate, Symbol (data) and Modulation rate?

Please vote at Talk:Symbol rate#Discussion of Suggested Merges. Mange01 (talk) 08:37, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Protocols pages re-writes

Hi - I'm willing to have a go at re-writing/re-organising a couple of the protocols pages. I'd prefer if someone were willing to review the articles prior to submission, but not being familiar with the way things are around here I'm willing to go with the flow? How are things reviewed around here within this project? The main one I wanted to start with was the page on V5 and perhaps then to look at adding an NMDS page (strangely theres a BT Home Highway page which as I understand it is a specific implementation of NMDS) and then go on from there Beardybloke (talk) 16:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Rename proposal for the lists of basic topics

This project's subject has a page in the set of Lists of basic topics.

See the proposal at the Village pump to change the names of all those pages.

   10:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion for new article: Samsung Telecommunications

I'm an employee of Samsung Telecommunication business and I'm here to improve and expand information on Samsung-related pages. There is no information about Samsung Telecommunications in Wikipedia while this company is the second biggest manufacturer of mobile handsets. Therefore, this article would contribute to developing content of WikiProject Telecommunications. I understand the rules of Wikipedia and possible COI issues,that's why I'm asking wikipedians to help in creation of relevant article with NPOV. I'm ready to provide any kind of information which could be relevant for this article. Here is a draft of article: user: lyubmarin/Samsung Telecommunications Lyubmarin (talk) 05:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

A discussion

An important discussion on " Should WikiProjects get prior approval of other WikiProjects (Descendant or Related or any ) to tag articles that overlaps their scope ? " is open here . We welcome you to participate and give your valuable opinions. -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - , member of WikiProject Council. 14:56, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

SS7 links

Hi - theres been a bit of an ongoing edit war in the SS7 page. I'd appreciate it if people could have a look at the Talk page and add their thoughts to the addition or otherwise of this link? See Talk:Signaling System 7 Beardybloke (talk) 00:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Vote: Four or five layers in the TCP/IP model template.

Give your vote here: Should the TCP/IP model template have four or five layers? And what is the name of the bottom layer in case of four layers? Mange01 (talk) 13:50, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup

Currently, 367 articles are assigned to this project, of which 169, or 46.0%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place the following template on your project page:

{{User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription}}

If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 16:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Article assessment?

I noticed that the {{Tel Project}} template does not support article assessment. Is this intentional, or is this an oversight? 69.140.152.55 (talk) 16:11, 22 August 2008 (UTC)